Encounters at the Photographers’ Rights Protest in LA

In Law, Photography, Photos, Rights on 19 January 2009 with 23 comments

After getting harassed at the US Bank Tower last Thursday, Shawn helped organize an impromptu protest for Sunday.

From Pershing Square, we walked up 5th Street toward the US Bank Tower. At this point, I was with Shawn Nee, David Sommars and Angelo Pacella.

Summary and transcription at the Gas Company Tower

Our first confrontation was almost immediate, occurring in front of the Gas Company Tower (Google Maps). The first SG was a older man with a New York accent. What follows is my transcription of the confrontation, along with an audio recording (download here).

Shawn: “You’re enforcing an non-existent law. We can photograph any [...] from a public space that’s in public view at any time.”

SG: “Like I said, I’m familiar with all these protests. I’ve lived in Manhattan for 49 years. I’ve seen it all.”

David: “Are you saying it’s illegal?”

SG: “No, I’m saying that the security company here has informed us that if anybody is taking pictures of the building to please ask them to leave. Whether it’s the law or not, you would probably know better than I do.”

Shawn: “The thing is you can ask us to leave, but legally, we don’t have to leave.”

[...]

SG: “I’m not gonna make a deal out of it – I’m just doin’ my job! Haha!”

Shawn: “From above, it seems like [...] they need to be educated on the laws.”

SG: “Well, I could give you the name of the company and you can do what you want.”

David: “We tried, but [...] they don’t respond to emails.”

SG: “Here’s the deal. If you are allowed, why would they tell us to move you guys out?”

Shawn: “Because there’s intimidation. There’s some people that don’t know the law, that will comply – they’ll just obey your order. But we do know the law, and we’re not arguing. We’re just telling you what our rights are.”

[...]

SG: “At this point, we’re just going round and round. but i don’t mean any disrespect or anything. I’m just feeding you what they’re feeding me.”

SG: “You pick and choose your battles. This is not a battle.”

SG walks back to the building to tell the other SGs about what we said. Damon arrives, walking from the direction of the US Bank Tower, already harassed by a female SG.

Approximately three minutes later (denoted in the audio with static), a second female SG emerges from the building. (I think Damon later tells us that she’s the same one from the US Bank Tower. Wait, what?)

SG2: “Hello. You guys are aware that this is private property, right?” points finger at the building

David: “This is private property?” points finger down to the sidewalk

SG2: “This is private property.” points finger to the building

David: “This is private property?” points finger down to the sidewalk

SG2: “This is private property.” points finger to the building

David: “Doesn’t matter.”

SG2: “Okay. You’re not supposed to take pictures. You’re violating a code. Did he ask you guys if this is a public property?”

Shawn: “No, it doesn’t matter, we’re on public property.”

SG2: “Yes, you are on public property, but you are taking pictures of our building.”

David: “Call the police.”

SG2: “We have already placed a call to the police.”

Shawn: “What code are we violating?”

SG2: “Just…just…I’m not gonna go back and forth, but I’m just advising you that we have already placed a call to LAPD, and once they get here, you guys can discuss this with them.”

David: “Would you be willing to make a bet?”

SG2 walks off to talk on her radio some more. She’s gone for five and a half minutes (static).

David decides to call the Central Division of LAPD. When he got an officer on the phone, he walked over to SG2 by the building door so she could talk to them on the phone. She refuses.

David: “Hey you guys. (On the phone) Hello, Officer Johnson? You are with Central Station? Yeah, hold on a second. (To SG2) Sorry, I took it off speaker. You wanna talk to him…?”

SG2: Interrupts mid-sentence “…No, we’re done.”

David: “…I got Officer Johnson at the station right here telling me there’s no law against it.”

SG2: “There’s technically no law against it. But what we’re telling you is it’s private property. And now you’re on private property.”

David: “But you told me a second ago you called the police.”

SG2: “No, what we said was we will call non-emergency.”

SG: “Central Station.”

David: “(On the phone) Sorry about that. Now they’re changing their story.”

SG: “There’s no change.”

David: “He’s got a tape recording of you saying you called the police on us.”

SG2: “That’s fine. I said what we will do is call the police. We’ll call non-emergency.”

David: “You said they’re on their way.”

David: (On the phone) “Ok, sorry Officer, I’m gonna have to let you go because they’re being dishonest.”

SG: “Look. Lemme reiterate. So you wanna tape it, go right ahead. you got your thing goin?”

SG: “I told you that I told the supervisor’s supervisor…”

David: “So, I got no respect for you guys anymore. You’re lying to us in the face.”

[...]

SG2: “The fact of the matter is…I said we will call non-emergency but I’m not gonna go…”

Angelo: “We called, too, to find out.”

SG2: “Perfect! You guys can standby…

David: “So you didn’t call the cops. Was that bull****?”

SG2: “We’re not gonna go back and forth.”

[...]

SG: “You heard what I said. I’m sure you put it down.”

David: “Don’t worry, you’re cool.”

Angelo: “I don’t know about that.”

David: “I don’t even know if he heard it.”

SG: “I’m over here!”

David: “She said they were on their way.”

SG: “Well that I don’t know.”

[...]

This was a fifteen minute “incident,” fit into about six minutes of audio with the “discussion.”

We had more than enough to go with, and we said all we could, so we moved on toward the US Bank Tower.

Learning points

Take photos of the security guard(s) harassing you.
Record the conversation. If you’re in a public space, there’s no expectation of privacy. It’s legal.
If you are recording and with a group of people (like we were), make it easier to transcribe by not interrupting each other. Talk this over beforehand.
Ask lots of questions. There’s a good chance they’ll slip up.
Do everything you can to get names of the security guard(s), company, and phone numbers.
Have the direct, non-emergency phone number of the local police department. If they threaten to call the police, you call them first. If they start to become belligerent, call them.
If they run out of steam, have multiple documents on hand for educational purposes. (See the “Know your rights” section for reference.) It’s not entirely their fault, but rather the management and security company that’s giving the orders.

For more details from the next incident at the US Bank Tower, subscribe to Discarted.

Quick summary at the US Bank Tower

Hal arrived near the beginning of that encounter, just in time to record video with his Apple iPhone. I was confronted by Robert first — the same SG from last Thursday. Then an equal amount of security guards came out to match our numbers.

The shift supervisor, Patrick Silver, came out and got into Shawn’s face. (See photo at the top. Shawn happens to be the smallest guy in the group.)

He demanded our identifications.

We were threatened with arrest.

[Patrick Silver] called [us] idiots for wanting to come there and take photos.

David got Officer Johnson (Central Division, LAPD) on the phone again, but [Patrick Silver] didn’t care what the LAPD or any of us had to say.

His body language was threatening over Shawn.

Carlos (a nicer SG) wrote down lots of information in his notepad. David and Damon gave him a lot of fake information.

Robert also harassed another man (William), just minding his own business, walking down the stairs, using his T-Mobile Sidekick.

Near the end, Carlos actually had a civil discussion about the law and what he knows their policy to be. Shawn gave him some papers about the law and civil rights, before we left.