All Narfed Up photography and words by Bryan Villarin

I can’t believe you are linking to this Bryan - not without adding a disclaimer anyway!

This is one of the most mis-informed, one-sided, irresponsible articles I have ever read on the web. I was shocked it was allowed to be printed - how many uninformed people read that article and, trusting Langa, thought that Firefox was as or more insecure than IE?

I posted a robust rebuttal of that article here.

Posted by Tom Raftery on 26 May 2005 @ 11am

Ooh yikes, ready for a post update Tom?

Posted by Bryan on 26 May 2005 @ 11am

Additional notes:

I didn’t realize that I coincidentally checked here immediately after you posted that comment. What timing!
I can’t believe I didn’t remember that I commented about this on your site.
If it’s any excuse, I haven’t been reading his newsletter lately, so I saw this and posted it without thinking.

Posted by Bryan on 26 May 2005 @ 11am

Ok,

I’ll let you off this time Bryan - but don’t let it happen again…

Tom

Posted by Tom Raftery on 26 May 2005 @ 12pm

Hahahaha!

Posted by Bryan on 26 May 2005 @ 12pm

I was shocked it was allowed to be printed - how many uninformed people read that article and, trusting Langa, thought that Firefox was as or more insecure than IE?

Wow… I for one couldn’t tell you which browser was more insecure with a billion dollars and 100 software engineers.

Just because more is known about one item compared to another does make it better.

Until people stop trying to find holes in IE, and instead put all their attention on Firefox, for years (as is the case with IE) no one can tell me (with fairness) which of the two browsers are more secure.

Are less issues known about in Firefox? Yes. That is why I use it. Does this make the browser more secure? Hell no. Some issues in Firefox are as big (if not actually bigger) as any of the biggest in IE. Need I remind you of that little extension issue just a little bit ago?

People can suggest browsers based on what they can and can’t do all they want. Just please don’t try telling me which one has better security. Both having flaws that in the worst case could be devastating to the user.

Posted by Anthony on 26 May 2005 @ 1pm

Anthony,

you are missing a couple of points.

Until people stop trying to find holes in IE, and instead put all their attention on Firefox

The point about Firefox is that it is Open Source so anyone can read the code which runs it and if they are good enough, point out vulnerabilities. This helps get bugs found and fixed faster.

Some issues in Firefox are as big (if not actually bigger)

Um no - if you look at the stats I pointed to in my post you’ll see that IE’s issues are far more serious than Firefox.

Also known issues with IE take far longer to be resolved (allowing malware writers to exploit them for longer) than any issues with Firefox.

These factors help make FIrefox the more secure browser

Now it is night time here - I’m off to bed!

Night, night.

Posted by Tom Raftery on 26 May 2005 @ 2pm

So when a person can change/delete/whatever files on your computer that isn’t big?

But once again… Until people start pouring money into ripping apart Firefox (as they do with IE)… And spend equal time trying to find bugs (not going to happen)… None of this means anything.

Posted by Anthony on 26 May 2005 @ 4pm

So when a person can change/delete/whatever files on your computer that isn’t big?

That can also be accomplished through far more than one security hole in IE.

And spend equal time trying to find bugs (not going to happen)

The community behind FireFox is one of the most response and effective community-driven bug-finding teams on the face of the earth. Are you trying to suggest that it doesn’t even come close to Microsoft’s bug-finding team?

Posted by MacManX on 26 May 2005 @ 7pm

First

Yes I do realize this, however there only has to be such a issue once. Anything after that is trival.

Second

I would never try to state that the community behind Firefox is less effective then Microsoft. Such a statement would be ludicrous. However… I would suggest that less people (bad people - good people don’t count as they don’t create problems) are finding bugs in Firefox. I wouldn’t say that thought is correct for sure, but at the same time I believe it to be.

Please realize my intention is not to make Firefox look bad. I simply think that Firefox gets unfair support. Not because it is the better browser (which I do think it is), but because it isn’t a Microsoft product.

As such I don’t make comments on this issue because I think IE is a better browser (I don’t), but because Microsoft gets a unfair shake at times. I make comments to this effect nearly everytime this happens. I do admit on certain subjects I do give the same unfair shake to Microsoft (read XBox).

I’m sorry if I offend you MacManX as that is in no way my intention.

Posted by Anthony on 26 May 2005 @ 8pm

I’ll have to agree with you on that. I’m no fan of Microsoft products, but the “it’s not Microsoft” factor does play a big role in Firefox’s popularity, and it is unfair. No offense taken.

Posted by MacManX on 27 May 2005 @ 12am

I wouldn’t say that thought is correct for sure, but at the same time I believe it to be

Anthony, instead of simply relying on your beliefs, why not do a little research using independent sources (i.e. Secunia) and get some facts - then you can make an informed decision on which browser is more secure.

Posted by Tom Raftery on 27 May 2005 @ 2am

Can you say troll?

You are really making me mad. You avoid the truth.

Second I don’t need to backup my beliefs (if there is even a way in the addressed statement). But most undoubtedly not when I make it very clear it’s a belief.

Posted by Anthony on 27 May 2005 @ 11am

Ah - you believe it so it must be so.

Right, well I believe that using internet Explorer makes you sterile - I don’t care that there’s tons of proof to the contrary.

I don’t need to backup my beliefs (if there is even a way in the addressed statement). But most undoubtedly not when I make it very clear it’s a belief.

Posted by Tom Raftery on 27 May 2005 @ 11am

Hey, Tom is not a troll.

Posted by MacManX on 27 May 2005 @ 1pm

Yep, Tom is definitely not a troll. (Commence)

Posted by Bryan on 27 May 2005 @ 2pm

I am not a troll

I a m a h u m a n b e i n n n n n g g g g g g g g g ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

[In my best John Merrick voice!]

Tom

Posted by Tom Raftery on 27 May 2005 @ 4pm

Could have fooled me. “Right, well I believe that using internet Explorer makes you sterile” :COUGH:

And NO BELIEFS ARE NOT FACT. Let me help you out a bit as you clearly don’t have a clue. http://www.answers.com/belief&r=67

I suppose it’s a good thing at no time did I state them as fact huh?

As far as you childlish (or rather troll antics) comment about a person’s use of IE… Like I said I don’t use it, and have not since before Firefox was any sort of big deal. However even if I did use IE I would like to see some facts proving your belief that it makes me “sterile”. :rollseyes:

Now I’m done because you are wasting my time, your own, and everyone elses and as such I refuse to partake in this complete and utter nonsence anymore.

Thanks for playing.

Posted by Anthony on 27 May 2005 @ 9pm

Ummm … Tom isn’t the one wasting my time here.

Posted by MacManX on 27 May 2005 @ 11pm

I refuse to partake in this complete and utter nonsence anymore

Great - bye!

Now back to sensible conversation - Firefox is more secure than IE!

Posted by Tom Raftery on 28 May 2005 @ 1am